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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/24/2002 7:15 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 16)  
 
  458.1  
 
Mark 11:12-14
12 Now the next day, when they had come out from Bethany, He was hungry. 
13 And seeing from afar a fig tree having leaves, He went to see if perhaps He would find something on it. And when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 
14 In response Jesus said to it, "Let no one eat fruit from you ever again." And His disciples heard it. 

 
We know that a few days later the disciples passed the same tree and it was withered and dead.  What a shock to them!  A tree was dead that just a few days ago was living and healthy...but bearing no fruit.  It was taking in the sun, taking in the rain, having an appearance of growth; but it did not produce fruit.
 
This is a picture of some of us...when we sit in church soaking in the word of God [the Sun/Son] and taking in the rain [the anointing] but not letting any of it produce  fruit in us.  That is to say we are hearers of the word, but not doers of the word.  You may even be able to quote scripture, watch TBN constantly, and listen to music all day long that edifies the spirit.  But you don't do anything but be busy, busy, busy with THINGS to do.  Playing the role of Martha and not Mary who sat at the feet of Jesus listening and absorbing the engrafted word of our Savior.  How many of us are like that?
 
We promise to pray, but we don't. 
We promise to bless, but we curse. 
We promise to pay our vows to God, but something else takes precedence over it. 
We promise to visit the sick, but we don't 
We promise to love each other as ourselves, but we love ourselves more than each other. 
We promise to help, but we turn away from our brethren. 
We promise to stop sinning, but we continue in our sin. 
We promise to read our word, but we pick up a magazine. 
We promise to study the word, but we watch the television. 
We promise to bear fruit, but no fruit is to be found. 
We live in our flesh and neglect our spirit man.  
 
If this is you, you are dying...a spiritual death and you are of no use to Jesus.  Jesus will do to you as He did to this tree...so before you are taken out of this life...start being a doer of the word, not just a hear of the word.~Minister Falcon 
  
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  From:  Watchman77    10/25/2002 2:29 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    (2 of 16)  
 
  458.2 in reply to 458.1  
 
so before you are taken out of this life...start being a doer of the word, not just a hear of the word.

 

Amen!

 

Rest in Jesus \o/

Watchman77
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Godswrath/start 

http://www.topsitelists.com/topsites.cgi?ID=6&user=BrookeH&area=start  Vote for Watch ye therefore in Best Forums

  

Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site.
Pat Marvenko Smith


  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. Rev 19:11

 

http://www.bushcountry.org/readyornot.htm



 
 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/25/2002 4:55 am  
To:  Watchman77    (3 of 16)  
 
  458.3 in reply to 458.2  
 
Amen, there are too many baby Christians sitting in the church for years.  They haven't gone from milk to meat and haven't served the Lord but only themselves.  It's time for us to grow up and mature.  Amen Watchman77! ~Minister Falcon 
  
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  From:  123four   10/27/2002 4:31 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    (4 of 16)  
 
  458.4 in reply to 458.3  
 
Could I add, Falcon, that some of these folk are not born again. 
They have come to know 'about' Jesus, but have not yet been born again. I understand the fig tree,etc., but I am beginning to believe that there are as many unsaved people within the body as there are anywhere else. A lot of peculiar and unbiblical doctrines are springing forth from people who could never believe those things if they were born again. It just wouldn't wash. 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/27/2002 11:48 am  
To:  123four   (5 of 16)  
 
  458.5 in reply to 458.4  
 
Wouldn't you then say that they are not part of the body, but just attending church services?

Yes it saddens my heart that people are not being taught the whole truth, not being encouraged to have an inner relationship with Jesus, and not being held accountable for their walk with Jesus.  This is all part of leaderships' responsibility.  

The shepherd lies down in the field with the sheep; our leaders are to do the same with their sheep.  Leaders are more interested in the building that they are building instead of the living stones of His Church.....~Minister Falcon



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Edited 10/27/2002 2:53:15 PM ET by OSMFALCON 
  
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  From:  123four   10/27/2002 1:39 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    (6 of 16)  
 
  458.6 in reply to 458.5  
 
Those who are not believers, that is born again, are not Christians. There are many of these people, however, who are in the local churches, active, holding positions,etc. That is what I was trying to say. AM I clear as mud? Sometimes years later, they do get born again. 
Sometimes not. But there are plenty who are memabers of local bodies (or some say churches) who do not know Christ. 
  
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  From:  Watchman77    10/28/2002 3:23 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    (7 of 16)  
 
  458.7 in reply to 458.4  
 
A lot of peculiar and unbiblical doctrines are springing forth from people who could never believe those things if they were born again. It just wouldn't wash.

just for the record Falcon, she is refering to me here.

 

Rest in Jesus \o/

Watchman77
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Godswrath/start 

http://www.topsitelists.com/topsites.cgi?ID=6&user=BrookeH&area=start  Vote for Watch ye therefore in Best Forums

  

Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site.
Pat Marvenko Smith


  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. Rev 19:11

 

http://www.bushcountry.org/readyornot.htm



 



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Edited 10/28/2002 6:24:07 AM ET by Watchman77 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/28/2002 11:41 am  
To:  123four   (8 of 16)  
 
  458.8 in reply to 458.6  
 
I thought we were saying the same thing....

There are leaders who do not teach ALL the word, nor do they do ALL the word.  What I am refering to is Matthew 10:7-8.  and Matthew 28:19-20.  

Leaders are suppose to prepare everyone to be disciples.  Instead they let the members sit in church and stay in milk not feeding the full gospel to the listeners.  Therefore the listeners stay in foundational doctrine, if they have a mind to and never proceed to the meat of the word which costs us something to receive.

The way things work is that blessings/curses/teachings start with leadership and flows downward to the members.  If a leader is walking in err, you have a group now that is teaching err.  This substantiates the scripture of 2 Peter 3.  Now that is called denominations...several come to mind that are not born again and spirit filled.  Others are born again, but deny the spirit empowerment through the baptism of the Holy spirit.  They take on the form of godliness but deny the power thereof [2 Timothy 3:5]
in which the next verse tells us to turn away from them.  But people don't, they are not sure, they are afraid....all because they don't know the word for lack of study on their parts...They are tricked because they allowed themselves to be tricked.  Disobedience carries its own just punishment. ~Minister Falcon

 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/28/2002 11:48 am  
To:  Watchman77    (9 of 16)  
 
  458.9 in reply to 458.7  
 
Watchman77,

I hope I am not causing any discension here, that is not my object of this writing.  

However, if there are differences of doctrine, the final authority has to be the word...who is wrong, who is right is not the issue....it isn't about us, its about Him.

Scripture interprets scripture which is the safest way to present the word without opinion.  A preacher once said on TBN that there is a spirit of opinion going around the body of Christ.....I had to laugh because you know that is true!  But where are you going to find that spirit listed in the bible?  Well, its called pride!  Since there are 167 scriptures in the bible related to the spirit of pride, we all suffer from it!  

I learned early on in writing on the boards that pride ushers in discord and disunity....we have to be watchful of the wiles of the devil and not let our behavior match his, but match our Saviors....amen...~Minister Falcon

 
 
  
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  From:  Watchman77    10/28/2002 12:55 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    (10 of 16)  
 
  458.10 in reply to 458.9  
 
I hope I am not causing any discension here, that is not my object of this writing.  

you are not causing any disention on my part and I appreciate your input.. 

However, if there are differences of doctrine, the final authority has to be the word...who is wrong, who is right is not the issue....it isn't about us, its about Him. 

I couldn't agree with you more... but the problem in this case is that we are "interpreting scriptures differently" everything that I believe can be backed up with scripture.

Scripture interprets scripture which is the safest way to present the word without opinion.  A preacher once said on TBN that there is a spirit of opinion going around the body of Christ.....I had to laugh because you know that is true!  But where are you going to find that spirit listed in the bible?  Well, its called pride!  Since there are 167 scriptures in the bible related to the spirit of pride, we all suffer from it!  

again I could not agree with you more, and I know that pride has always been one of my worst sins, but I really try to keep my opinion to myself and quote the word of God whenever possible. God is faithful and the only thing I can base my trust in is that.... if He says He will do something, I am going to believe that He will do it... if He says He already did something, then I am going to believe that too... 

I learned early on in writing on the boards that pride ushers in discord and disunity....we have to be watchful of the wiles of the devil and not let our behavior match his, but match our Saviors....amen...

again I agree, I have been online for over 10 years, back in the old days when AOL was 2.95 an hour so I know exactly what you mean about the discord and disunity, you will find online and there is very much evil and satan knows just how to use it against us to destroy us and way to often we play into his hands... that is why it is so important for us to draw nearer and nearer to the LORD Jesus and farther and farther away from the ways of the world and the lusts of the flesh. 

123 seems to have a problem with the fact that I believe we can live sinless if we draw close enough to the LORD Jesus and allow the Spirit of God to live His life in and through us. And I also believe that the name of every man is written in the book of Life until/unless it gets blotted out by blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which is to hate and reject the gifts of the Spirit listed in Galatians 5... I believe ALL men are saved by the blood of Jesus shed for the sins of the WHOLE world... I believe that when Jesus died He tasted death for every man and that by His tasting death for everyman, He made a way for every man to live in Him.... so every man starts out alive in Christ Jesus born of the Spirit of God in His image... I believe that it is by searing the conscience by the choices we make through our lives that will eventually cause us to lose our salvation and get our names blotted out of the book of Life...  

if you have any other questions I will be glad to answer them.. I appreciate your interest in searching for the whole truth, the one way we can ever hope to find it is by listening to each other and the still small voice of God in each and everyone of us.

 

Rest in Jesus \o/

Watchman77
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Godswrath/start 

http://www.topsitelists.com/topsites.cgi?ID=6&user=BrookeH&area=start  Vote for Watch ye therefore in Best Forums

  

Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site.
Pat Marvenko Smith


  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. Rev 19:11

 

http://www.bushcountry.org/readyornot.htm



 
 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/28/2002 1:38 pm  
To:  Watchman77    (11 of 16)  
 
  458.11 in reply to 458.10  
 
You said:  so every man starts out alive in Christ Jesus born of the Spirit of God in His image... I believe that it is by searing the conscience by the choices we make through our lives that will eventually cause us to lose our salvation and get our names blotted out of the book of Life...  

You mean at physical birth or at the acceptance of Christ as Lord and Master of your life at the born again experience?

Oh boy, here I go again.....lol

You can indeed lose your salvation, not because God takes it away but because man walks away from the salvation of the Lord by backsliding which is brought on by disobedience.  I have tons of scripture to support this. but I am thinking you don't need it...~Minister Falcon

 
 
  
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  From:  123four   10/28/2002 2:44 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    (12 of 16)  
 
  458.12 in reply to 458.11  
 
Watchman and I have strong disagreement in that I believe to enter the Kingdom of Heaven that 'Ye must be born again'. Watchman on the other hand, believes that everyone is 'born again and filled with the Holy Spirit' at the time of their physical infant birth. She believes that we do not need to know Jesus at all to go to heaven. She says church is unnecesary and some of the gifts of the Spirit are also not necessary, as we do not need to go to church. Yes , we do disagree. 
I believe we cannot be born again..that is..our spirits born again unless we actually make a choice to make Jesus our Lord at some time when we are convicted of our sins. She believes the infant (everyone) 
is in fact born again ...the spirit born again...without the infant even knowing it or being able to make a choice (because his physical body and mind are infant). 

Watchman believes all go to heaven whether they know Jesus in a personally or not. She claims my own born again experience as an adult was simply a 'realization that Jesus doees exist' but that my spirit ws 'born again' as an infant. I know what happened to me when I was born again and I do know this new birth is very real . I know the changes in my heart and life. This did not happen when I was born as an infant. No. 

I believe every Christian should strive to be sinless, to obey God, to grow and mature...but I do believe that Jesus has been the only one who has been sinless. 

Watchman claims she is a prophet and I do not receive that. Do not believe she is a prophet of God, at least. 

We have major differences, primarily because I have experienced the spiritual birth or been born again which I maintain was when I came to know Jesus as my Savior as well as my Lord. This is the time my heart was circumcised and I became the temple of the Holy Spirit of God. As I said above, watchman believes all are 'saved' whether we know it or not and all will go to heaven unless we should blaspheme the Holy Spirit. She believes Buddhists, Hare Krishna, and all of the cults are going to heaven as it is unnecessary to know Jesus because 
they are already 'saved'. 

I maintain that they will be told "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, for I NEVER KNEW YOU". Yes, it is necessary to know Jesus as Lord. It is also necessary, as I see it, for the wonderful , and beyond words relationship that we have. Who would want to go thru life without knowing Him? And why? I maintain we must repent of our sins and receive forgiveness everytime we sin. Watchman says future sins are forgiven for all of mankind, as I understand her. 

Watchman is a Universalist. This is the way she believes unless she has changed within the last few weeks. While she does not claim to be, she does post articles by Carlton Pearson, another universalist. 
By reading his articles, it is clear he is universalist. He is in Tulsa. I was never a follower of his ministry, but had heard him preach before. 

We also disagree in that I do believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the church , just as the scripture tells us. I also believe the offices the Spirit ofGod placed within the church for the 5 fold ministry are for the church today. Believe all the gifts of H.S. are for today as well as the early church. 

So, you can see, there are myriads of differences, but I have already discussed what I have said some weeks ago with Watchman and she does not receive any of the scriptures I have given her on these things. 





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Edited 10/28/2002 5:52:00 PM ET by 123four 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     10/28/2002 11:11 pm  
To:  123four   (13 of 16)  
 
  458.13 in reply to 458.12  
 
When I was a child, my mother used to cook with vanilla extract.  I just loved the smell of vanilla extract.  Now my mother would always tell me, don't you dare taste that vanilla extract.  She never gave me a reason, just told me not to taste it....Well behind her back, when she wasn't looking, I tasted the extract.   It was VERY different from its sweet fragrance.  What a shocker!  

Doctrines of all sorts are like this little kid tasting vanilla extract.  It seems right, sounds godly, but when you get to taste the fruit of the doctrine it is bitter to the taste.  In other words it is false.

For a long time, I believed that all of us are children of God.  I believed that God was very distant and Jesus was right up there with Him, very distance and that we had to go through saints, and other demi-gods to reach them.  The Holy Spirit, He was just a mystical character to me, who really didn't have a purpose except to be mysterious.  That was a doctrine taught to me.  

There are others that told me that Jesus was really the Archangel Michael come down in the flesh.  Then I read scripture that said that Jesus was made higher than the angels.  

I have gone around to so many different teachings until one day God said, 'No more!'  You are going to buy a bible and start to read it.  I did read it, 5 times for five years.  I read the experience in the bible about Nicodemus and Jesus, how he came to Jesus and asked Him questions about how to get to heaven.  Jesus said, that we have to be born again.  Now Nicodemus found that hard to understand. but Jesus simplified it for him, explaining that one has to be born of water and of Spirit.  I believe that Jesus was referring to the two baptisms of water and fire [repentance and empowerment].

When I research the scriptures and cross-referenced the scriptures on Nicodemus and Jesus' encounter...it all started to make sense to me.  I recalled the time when Jesus was looking for followers and someone wanted to go bury his relative, and Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.  To me that was a hard saying....so I questioned what did this mean?  When I started to put together the scriptures again, I realized that one is considered 'dead in one's sins' before the new birth experience.  So therefore, our spirit man has to be awakened.  The only way that can be done is ask God into our heart.  Immediately, the spirit man wakes up because there is a divine visitation that has entered the heart that takes up His home there.  

This is a life changing experience!  Wow to have that visitation from the Divine!  That Divine, being Jesus Himself.  Then the Holy Spirit is walking with me...beside me...guiding me.  But the I remember reading that when Jesus was leaving the earth to go to heaven, He instructed His disciples to tarry in Jerusalem for the Comforter would be sent back to them.  That was the promise made in Joel where the Spirit would be poured out over all flesh....hmmm I thought that made sense.  Ok so then what?

I read in Acts the experience the 120 had in the upper room, how they were all filled with the Holy Spirit as if tongues of fire had come down upon them, resting and empowering them with a new language and prophecising and running around drunk, acting differently than before....so many people witnessed this strange event.  It was then that the disciples started to preach with authority, and show signs and wonders to all of the known world.  It must have been an awesome beginning for these people!  

I hungered for this outpouring for myself.  After much reading, teaching, and understanding, I received the Holy Spirit.  But it took a lot of reading, studying, and learning to hear and do the truth.  I learned not to rely on my opinion, for I know that it is worthless compared to God's word.  I learned not to trust any wo/man, because they fall short of the glory and so I listened to what they had to say and then checked it against the word of God.  Sometimes they were in error, sometimes they were right on....I found that by taking this approach to the truth, the truth will stand and no one could change my mind.  

But so many of us don't do this....we rely on wo/man's intellect and wisdom and not on God's instruction book [the bible] and His wisdom.  Saints we need to change our thinking and let God re-form our thoughts and re-shape our destiny to suit His purpose.  The only way that can happen is if we are teachable and apt to study and learn the truth for ourselves.   We have to do this before we leave this earth, because if we wait, if we hold onto our stubborn pride and own way of thinking it will be too late to make the change and be saved from hell fires....~Minister Falcon
 
  
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From:  Watchman77    10/29/2002 5:20 am  
To:  123four    
 
    
 
Watchman and I have strong disagreement in that I believe to enter the Kingdom of Heaven that 'Ye must be born again'. Watchman on the other hand, believes that everyone is 'born again and filled with the Holy Spirit' at the time of their physical infant birth. She believes that we do not need to know Jesus at all to go to heaven. She says church is unnecesary and some of the gifts of the Spirit are also not necessary, as we do not need to go to church. Yes , we do disagree. 

Watchman believes that when Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he "MUST be born again" He was not telling Nicodemus that he had to be reborn, but that he was already born of the Spirit or he would not be able to recognise that Jesus was sent from God... Watchman believes that ALL men are begotten of the Spirit of God from CONCEPTION and that before they are born their names are already written in the book of Life and they are bound for heaven... Watchman believes that IF we KNOW Jesus we should act like we know Jesus and live like we know Jesus and it is not just heaven we are looking to receive, but a closer more intimate relationship with God the Father through the blood of Jesus by obedience and love. 

I DO NOT believe that all men are "FILLED" with the Spirit at birth or conception, but that they are born of the Spirit at conception. Job 34:15, Ecclesiates 12:7,

Watchman believes that "church" as in gathering in a church building and congratulating each other on their salvation is a very dangerous place and leads more people into a wrong relationship with God than a right one.

Watchman has NEVER said that the gifts of the Spirit are not necessary, but does not believe the so-called manifestation of some of these gifts as seen in the "christian church" of today is of God, but is really a perversion of the true gifts of the Spirit and counterfeits of satan such as the so-called speaking in tongues, that is really nothing more than babbling and confusion. 

I believe we cannot be born again..that is..our spirits born again unless we actually make a choice to make Jesus our Lord at some time when we are convicted of our sins. She believes the infant (everyone) 
is in fact born again ...the spirit born again...without the infant even knowing it or being able to make a choice (because his physical body and mind are infant). 

Watchman believes that ALL names are written in the book of Life and until they are blotted out by God for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit they remain there and stay saved. Watchman believes there is nothing we do that gets our names written in the book of Life, this is the free gift of God given to every man, Watchman believes it IS what we do that can get our names blotted out. Watchman believes since we had no choice to be involved in the fall of mankind, neither did we have to choose to be involved in the restoration of mankind... that what Jesus did He did for everyone and not just for those who know about it and accept it. 

Watchman believes all go to heaven whether they know Jesus in a personally or not. She claims my own born again experience as an adult was simply a 'realization that Jesus doees exist' but that my spirit ws 'born again' as an infant. I know what happened to me when I was born again and I do know this new birth is very real . I know the changes in my heart and life. This did not happen when I was born as an infant. No. 

Watchman does NOT believe ALL men go to heaven, I believe ALL men start out bound for heaven but unfortunately many stray so far away from God in their life times that they lose the free gift of salvation and draw back into perdition and are eternally lost. Watchman believes that the "born-again experience" that so many people brag about is the realization that we are spiritual creatures created in the image of God and that it is the realization of that fact that helps us to grow into the spiritual beings that God created us to be... Watchman believes that as an infant 123 did not need to be "changed" because she was already perfect, created in the very image of God and that it was the choices that she made through her lifetime that took her away from God and her "born-again experience" brought her back closer to God and that is why the "change" 

I believe every Christian should strive to be sinless, to obey God, to grow and mature...but I do believe that Jesus has been the only one who has been sinless. 

Watchman believes that ALL "christians" should be sinless, because being a "christian" means we have been set apart for a purpose, and that unless we can be sinless, we cannot expect others to know that they are no longer in bondage to sin and can live in Christ Jesus. Watchman believes that Jesus left an example for us to follow and that He fully intended that we follow it, and IF we could not be "perfect as He is perfect" then Jesus would never have said that we should. 

Watchman claims she is a prophet and I do not receive that. Do not believe she is a prophet of God, at least. 

Watchman HAS NOT claimed that she is a prophet, I have shared that I was told I was a prophet and that God has shown me many things before they ever happen... and that if God calls me to be a prophet, I will not reject it or deny it... 

We have major differences, primarily because I have experienced the spiritual birth or been born again which I maintain was when I came to know Jesus as my Savior as well as my Lord. This is the time my heart was circumcised and I became the temple of the Holy Spirit of God. As I said above, watchman believes all are 'saved' whether we know it or not and all will go to heaven unless we should blaspheme the Holy Spirit. She believes Buddhists, Hare Krishna, and all of the cults are going to heaven as it is unnecessary to know Jesus because 
they are already 'saved'. 

Watchman believes that ALL men are created in the image of God and are the "temple of God" and that it is not until they blaspheme the Holy Spirit that God withdraws His Spirit and man's name is blotted out of the book of Life. Watchman believes that those who are deceived into believing the lies of religion, but are pure in their desire to know and serve God will be rewarded for this desire... Watchman believes that if a man is living by the fruits of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5 that is because the Spirit of God dwells inside him, because without the Spirit of God these fruits would not be possible. Watchman believes there is great benefit in knowing Jesus in this life and the next, but it is not salvation, because that is a free gift, the benefit of knowing and trusting Jesus as your LORD is that you can live a sinless life in the flesh and have an intimate relationship with God here and in eternity. 

I maintain that they will be told "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, for I NEVER KNEW YOU". Yes, it is necessary to know Jesus as Lord. It is also necessary, as I see it, for the wonderful , and beyond words relationship that we have. Who would want to go thru life without knowing Him? And why? I maintain we must repent of our sins and receive forgiveness everytime we sin. Watchman says future sins are forgiven for all of mankind, as I understand her. 

Watchman believes those who are told "Depart from Me ye workers of iniquity" are those who claim they know and follow Jesus but have no real concept of godliness and continue to live as though they are still blind... Watchman believes that repentance is a change of heart and is done once, not over and over and over... Watchman believes that if we continue to live in sin after we have been shown the great price Jesus paid to deliver us from sin we are bringing the cross of Christ to shame and trampling the blood of the covenant under foot. Watchman believes that to ask forgiveness over and over again shows a great lack of understanding as to what repentance really is and what the "finished work" of Jesus accomplished. Watchman believes that when Jesus said He died for the sins of ALL mankind, that He was telling the truth, since He cannot lie 

Watchman is a Universalist. This is the way she believes unless she has changed within the last few weeks. While she does not claim to be, she does post articles by Carlton Pearson, another universalist. 
By reading his articles, it is clear he is universalist. He is in Tulsa. I was never a follower of his ministry, but had heard him preach before. 

Watchman does not even know what a "universalist" believes... although I have been told that they have a similar belief... Carlton Pearson is NOT a universalist, he is a christian and he has spoken of his belief in the saving power of the blood of Jesus over and over again.. by reading his articles it is obvious that he has studied the word of God and he is rightly dividing scriptures in an attempt to come to the WHOLE truth of God. Watchman did not even know that Carlton Pearson was teaching the same message until 123 told me, and I had absolutely no idea that it was being taught by any denomination or group... this was a conclussion that Watchman came to completely on her own by searching the scriptures and studying them daily and seeking God's voice through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and LISTENING to what He is saying. 

We also disagree in that I do believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the church , just as the scripture tells us. I also believe the offices the Spirit ofGod placed within the church for the 5 fold ministry are for the church today. Believe all the gifts of H.S. are for today as well as the early church. 

Watchman believes in ALL the gifts of the Spirit and have experienced many of them in one way or another... I DO NOT believe that these gifts are to be hidden away in the "church" but are given to us to be used to "set the captives free" and for the "perfecting of the saints"... and since 123 does not believe that "saints can be perfect" then there would not be much point in following the "5 fold ministry" of Ephesians 4:11 

So, you can see, there are myriads of differences, but I have already discussed what I have said some weeks ago with Watchman and she does not receive any of the scriptures I have given her on these things. 

we have actually discussed nothing, you have told me where I am wrong and tried to give me scripture pulled out of context or misinterpreted to prove it, while competely disregarding any and all scripture that I have given you to show where this understanding comes from, which is the Word of God. You have never tried to give an answer as to why the bible says that ALL who's names are not written in the book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire, and yet you believe that ALL babies go to heaven, even though you don't believe their names are written in the book of Life... you hold to some man-made doctrine of "the age of accountability" which has no biblical support whatsoever... you cannot explain why the bible says that ALL flesh would perish if the Spirit of God was withdrawn from man and would return to dust, and yet believe that ALL men do not have the Spirit of God dwelling in them.. you have not even tried to explain why the bible says that Jesus is the Saviour of the WHOLE world and that He tasted death for every man, and yet ALL men are lost until they "know" Jesus... you have not explained how what He did to save the world was much more powerful than what Adam did, and yet Adam caused ALL men to be lost, while Jesus could only "save" a few... you disregard these proofs of what I am saying and hold to your preconceived ideas of what Jesus did being only partly finished, needing an act of man to complete it... and that although Jesus died to save the WHOLE world He only really succeeded in saving a handful, and this is such a pathetic pitiful handful, who even with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit cannot rise above sin, while they condemn those who sin in ignorance to eternal damnation. 

Yes there is many, many things we disagree on, and I trully pray that the day will come that we can be in unity of ALL things, but I will not go back to your way of thinking when I KNOW all these things are supported by scripture and that is how we should base our understanding, by scripture. You are perfectly entitled to believe what you want to believe and so am I... but if you want to claim that your understanding is scriptural while mine is of the devil, then you should be able to come up with more scripture to prove my understanding is not scriptural and you can't.

 

Rest in Jesus \o/

Watchman77
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Godswrath/start 

http://www.topsitelists.com/topsites.cgi?ID=6&user=BrookeH&area=start  Vote for Watch ye therefore in Best Forums

  

Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site.
Pat Marvenko Smith


  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. Rev 19:11

 

http://www.bushcountry.org/readyornot.htm



 
From:  David (DavidABrown)    11/4/2002 8:50 am  
To:  Watchman77    (15 of 16)  
 
  458.15 in reply to 458.14  
 
Hi,

"Watchman believes that ALL men are begotten of the Spirit of God from CONCEPTION and that before they are born their names are already written in the book of Life and they are bound for heaven..."

For the record the Bible has no such teaching that people begin physical life-conception with their name written in Gods "Book of Life" it actually teaches the opposite that your name is not in the Book of Life until you personally acknowledge God as God and then enter into Life and God then Records your name into His "Book of Life"

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Revelation 17:8  and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world  

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter in to it (Heaven) anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lambs book of life.

God Bless you,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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   From:  Watchman77    11/5/2002 4:46 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (16 of 16)  
 
  458.16 in reply to 458.15  
 
  
Hi,

"Watchman believes that ALL men are begotten of the Spirit of God from CONCEPTION and that before they are born their names are already written in the book of Life and they are bound for heaven..."

For the record the Bible has no such teaching that people begin physical life-conception with their name written in Gods "Book of Life" it actually teaches the opposite that your name is not in the Book of Life until you personally acknowledge God as God and then enter into Life and God then Records your name into His "Book of Life"

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Revelation 17:8  and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world  

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

actually all these verses prove, is that there are those who will have their names blotted out of the book of Life... show me one where it says your names WILL be written into the book of Life when you do something. the book of Life was written from the foundation of the world before any man was ever created, if your name is written in the book of Life it was written there 6000 years ago. 

yes through Adam all mankind fell into sin and death, but through Jesus all mankind was brought back into Life and this was done before the foundation of the world Revelation 13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Romans 5: 18, Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life.

 

 

Rest in Jesus \o/

Watchman77
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Godswrath/start 

http://www.topsitelists.com/topsites.cgi?ID=6&user=BrookeH&area=start  Vote for Watch ye therefore in Best Forums

  

Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site.
Pat Marvenko Smith


  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. Rev 19:11

 

http://www.bushcountry.org/readyornot.htm



 
 
  
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